Writer Interview: Katherine Schafler | Gretchen Rubin

Okayatherine Schafler is a psychotherapist with a non-public follow in NYC, previously an on-site therapist at Google. Along with her weblog, she’s a contributing author at TIME and Enterprise Insider, in addition to an editor-at-large for Arianna Huffington’s Thrive World. Her ebook, The Perfectionist’s Information to Dropping Management: A Path to Peace and Energy (Amazon, Bookshop) simply hit cabinets.

I couldn’t wait to speak to Katherine about happiness, habits, and psychological well being.

Gretchen: What’s a easy exercise or behavior that constantly makes you happier, more healthy, extra productive, or extra artistic?

Katherine: Each single morning, I get up early and drink guayusa tea in solitude whereas I write, work, learn, do something that restores me actually. I used to drink a lot espresso and I by no means meant on switching to tea, however in the future I used to be operating late for work (actually operating to my workplace in an NYC warmth wave) and I received so scorching that I popped right into a bodega to get a chilly drink. I grabbed the primary drink I noticed with caffeine in it (iced guayusa, which I’d by no means tried or heard of earlier than) and went to work. An hour or so later, I began to really feel this clear, nearly excessive. It was like I had espresso however with out the tweaky-ness that typically accompanies espresso for me. I felt completely alert, but in addition nonetheless. 

I continued to drink espresso after that, however I additionally began ordering unfastened leaf guayusa. I realized guayusa comes from a plant within the Amazon rainforest. It has thrice the antioxidants as common inexperienced tea, is understood to advertise temper and regulate blood sugar, and doesn’t have that ‘earthy’ style that inexperienced tea usually has (which I don’t like). Ultimately I ended consuming espresso and converted to guayusa completely, which was easy. 

What’s one thing you realize now about happiness that you simply didn’t know while you had been 18 years previous? 

That pleasure is extra vital than happiness. I would like each to get by in life, but when I keep linked to pleasure, I can deal with loads of ups and downs within the happiness division with out it bothering me an excessive amount of. There’s a non secular educating that goes one thing like, “Pleasure is happiness for no motive.” In the event you consider a small baby, they’re naturally joyful. They’re curious, open, they play quite a bit, they take their creativeness critically – all these traits come up from pleasure. Small children can have tantrums and turn into very sad in moments, however they recover from it shortly as a result of they keep linked to pleasure.  

Have you ever ever managed to achieve a difficult wholesome behavior – or to interrupt an unhealthy behavior? In that case, how did you do it?

Sure, I was a strolling unhealthy behavior! I’ve kicked many unhealthy habits! One instance of constructive behavior change that I showcase in my ebook: I carry just a little Tupperware factor of chia seeds in my bag and sprinkle them on every part. Eggs, yogurt, smoothies, ice cream, pizza, every part. I additionally maintain a reasonably glass jar on my kitchen counter stuffed with chia seeds for a similar motive I maintain salt and pepper available as a substitute of storing them within the pantry; I make the behavior as handy and as interesting to me as doable. 

As a result of I received within the behavior of placing chia seeds on every part, it helped strengthen my id as somebody who makes wholesome selections on daily basis. (Whats up, insurgent tendency!) It’s just a little behavior nevertheless it was a springboard for me to achieve the behavior of consuming extra nourishing, wholesome meals. It’s labored alongside different tiny however constructive habits which, cumulatively, assist me lead an pleasant, wholesome life-style.  

Would you describe your self as an Upholder, a Questioner, a Insurgent, or an Obliger?

 I’m a insurgent. I was extra of an obliger, however I skilled obliger-rebellion over the pandemic. 

Does something are likely to intervene along with your capability to maintain your wholesome habits or your happiness? (e.g. journey, events, e mail) 

I like going to sleep early and waking up early, so even one thing so simple as going to a late dinner with pals and never going to sleep once I usually fall asleep, then not waking up once I usually get up. That may result in a adverse ripple impact for like, a strong week. Generally longer. 

I’m a superlark and I would like my morning time. Therefore why I schedule dinners with pals at 5:30pm like I’m in my eighties, and why I’ll depart most occasions—regardless of how cool or enjoyable they’re—by 8:30pm. If an occasion or dinner doesn’t begin till 9pm, I gained’t go for a similar motive that most individuals wouldn’t schedule breakfast with their pals at 5am.   

Have you ever ever been hit by a lightning bolt, the place you made a serious change very all of a sudden, as a consequence of studying a ebook, a dialog with a buddy, a milestone birthday, a well being scare, and so on.? 

By no means. Change for me has all the time been a wholly unceremonious affair. It’s little by little, daily, invisible ‘til it’s not. I swear by incrementalism. 

Is there a specific motto or saying that you simply’ve discovered very useful? (e.g., I remind myself to “Be Gretchen.”) Or a citation that has struck you as significantly insightful?

After I was writing my ebook, Seth Godin’s ebook, The Observe: Transport Inventive Work (Amazon, Bookshop) got here out. In that ebook, Godin addresses the nervousness that may come up while you share your work with the world. He says, “It’s by no means going to be ok for everybody, nevertheless it’s already ok for somebody.” That line actually saved me shifting in a second once I would have in any other case turn into caught. 

Has a ebook ever modified your life – if that’s the case, which one and why? 

Completely. Again and again. Each ebook I learn adjustments me indirectly. After I was a young person, my older brother gave me a replica of Jean Kilbourne’s, Can’t Purchase My Love: How Promoting Adjustments the Means We Assume and Really feel (Amazon, Bookshop). I by no means noticed promoting the identical manner once more. 

I grew to become obsessive about that ebook. I used to be like, “Why isn’t everybody speaking about this ebook?!” I petitioned the dean of my school to let me train a category based mostly straight on that ebook, which ended up turning into a well-liked course. Kilbourne’s ebook shielded me from the way in which girls are instructed that their our bodies/appears to be like/thinness are their biggest forex. It additionally shielded me in opposition to the concept shopping for issues will repair your issues.  

In your discipline, is there a typical false impression that you simply’d prefer to appropriate?

I’m a psychotherapist, and there are extra psychological well being myths than I might handle in a single query. I speak about loads of psychological well being myths in my ebook, “The Perfectionist’s Information to Dropping Management: a path to peace and energy.”  One big false impression is, “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” That’s not true. 

What doesn’t kill you would possibly traumatize you to the purpose of disintegrating your reminiscence recall. What doesn’t kill you would possibly push you into habit. What doesn’t kill you would possibly make you suicidal or parasuicidal. What doesn’t kill you would possibly lead you to bodily or emotionally abuse your youngsters since you don’t know find out how to deal with the overwhelming nature of your wrestle. 

Battle doesn’t assure resilience. A extra correct expression could be “What doesn’t kill you forces you right into a place the place it’s a must to select between connection or isolation, and selecting connection makes you stronger.” It’s not as like, ‘slogan-ready’ per se, however correct, nonetheless.

I want folks understood that it’s by no means the horrible issues that occurred to you that make you stronger; it’s the resiliency-building expertise you have interaction to course of the horrible issues. What doesn’t kill you can make you stronger, however provided that you are feeling your emotions, course of your expertise (i.e., work out what the expertise means to you), and have interaction the protecting elements round you—primarily, the facility of connection. Help isn’t just an alternate of knowledge or help; help is an alternate of connection.

I couldn’t wait to speak to Katherine about happiness, habits, and psychological well being.

Gretchen: What’s a easy exercise or behavior that constantly makes you happier, more healthy, extra productive, or extra artistic?

Katherine: Each single morning, I get up early and drink guayusa tea in solitude whereas I write, work, learn, do something that restores me actually. I used to drink a lot espresso and I by no means meant on switching to tea, however in the future I used to be operating late for work (actually operating to my workplace in an NYC warmth wave) and I received so scorching that I popped right into a bodega to get a chilly drink. I grabbed the primary drink I noticed with caffeine in it (iced guayusa, which I’d by no means tried or heard of earlier than) and went to work. An hour or so later, I began to really feel this clear, nearly excessive. It was like I had espresso however with out the tweaky-ness that typically accompanies espresso for me. I felt completely alert, but in addition nonetheless. 

I continued to drink espresso after that, however I additionally began ordering unfastened leaf guayusa. I realized guayusa comes from a plant within the Amazon rainforest. It has thrice the antioxidants as common inexperienced tea, is understood to advertise temper and regulate blood sugar, and doesn’t have that ‘earthy’ style that inexperienced tea usually has (which I don’t like). Ultimately I ended consuming espresso and converted to guayusa completely, which was easy. 

What’s one thing you realize now about happiness that you simply didn’t know while you had been 18 years previous? 

That pleasure is extra vital than happiness. I would like each to get by in life, but when I keep linked to pleasure, I can deal with loads of ups and downs within the happiness division with out it bothering me an excessive amount of. There’s a non secular educating that goes one thing like, “Pleasure is happiness for no motive.” In the event you consider a small baby, they’re naturally joyful. They’re curious, open, they play quite a bit, they take their creativeness critically – all these traits come up from pleasure. Small children can have tantrums and turn into very sad in moments, however they recover from it shortly as a result of they keep linked to pleasure.  

Have you ever ever managed to achieve a difficult wholesome behavior – or to interrupt an unhealthy behavior? In that case, how did you do it?

Sure, I was a strolling unhealthy behavior! I’ve kicked many unhealthy habits! One instance of constructive behavior change that I showcase in my ebook: I carry just a little Tupperware factor of chia seeds in my bag and sprinkle them on every part. Eggs, yogurt, smoothies, ice cream, pizza, every part. I additionally maintain a reasonably glass jar on my kitchen counter stuffed with chia seeds for a similar motive I maintain salt and pepper available as a substitute of storing them within the pantry; I make the behavior as handy and as interesting to me as doable. 

As a result of I received within the behavior of placing chia seeds on every part, it helped strengthen my id as somebody who makes wholesome selections on daily basis. (Whats up, insurgent tendency!) It’s just a little behavior nevertheless it was a springboard for me to achieve the behavior of consuming extra nourishing, wholesome meals. It’s labored alongside different tiny however constructive habits which, cumulatively, assist me lead an pleasant, wholesome life-style.  

Would you describe your self as an Upholder, a Questioner, a Insurgent, or an Obliger?

 I’m a insurgent. I was extra of an obliger, however I skilled obliger-rebellion over the pandemic. 

Does something are likely to intervene along with your capability to maintain your wholesome habits or your happiness? (e.g. journey, events, e mail) 

I like going to sleep early and waking up early, so even one thing so simple as going to a late dinner with pals and never going to sleep once I usually fall asleep, then not waking up once I usually get up. That may result in a adverse ripple impact for like, a strong week. Generally longer. 

I’m a superlark and I would like my morning time. Therefore why I schedule dinners with pals at 5:30pm like I’m in my eighties, and why I’ll depart most occasions—regardless of how cool or enjoyable they’re—by 8:30pm. If an occasion or dinner doesn’t begin till 9pm, I gained’t go for a similar motive that most individuals wouldn’t schedule breakfast with their pals at 5am.   

Have you ever ever been hit by a lightning bolt, the place you made a serious change very all of a sudden, as a consequence of studying a ebook, a dialog with a buddy, a milestone birthday, a well being scare, and so on.? 

By no means. Change for me has all the time been a wholly unceremonious affair. It’s little by little, daily, invisible ‘til it’s not. I swear by incrementalism. 

Is there a specific motto or saying that you simply’ve discovered very useful? (e.g., I remind myself to “Be Gretchen.”) Or a citation that has struck you as significantly insightful?

After I was writing my ebook, Seth Godin’s ebook, The Observe: Transport Inventive Work (Amazon, Bookshop) got here out. In that ebook, Godin addresses the nervousness that may come up while you share your work with the world. He says, “It’s by no means going to be ok for everybody, nevertheless it’s already ok for somebody.” That line actually saved me shifting in a second once I would have in any other case turn into caught. 

Has a ebook ever modified your life – if that’s the case, which one and why? 

Completely. Again and again. Each ebook I learn adjustments me indirectly. After I was a young person, my older brother gave me a replica of Jean Kilbourne’s, Can’t Purchase My Love: How Promoting Adjustments the Means We Assume and Really feel (Amazon, Bookshop). I by no means noticed promoting the identical manner once more. 

I grew to become obsessive about that ebook. I used to be like, “Why isn’t everybody speaking about this ebook?!” I petitioned the dean of my school to let me train a category based mostly straight on that ebook, which ended up turning into a well-liked course. Kilbourne’s ebook shielded me from the way in which girls are instructed that their our bodies/appears to be like/thinness are their biggest forex. It additionally shielded me in opposition to the concept shopping for issues will repair your issues.  

In your discipline, is there a typical false impression that you simply’d prefer to appropriate?

I’m a psychotherapist, and there are extra psychological well being myths than I might handle in a single query. I speak about loads of psychological well being myths in my ebook, “The Perfectionist’s Information to Dropping Management: a path to peace and energy.”  One big false impression is, “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” That’s not true. 

What doesn’t kill you would possibly traumatize you to the purpose of disintegrating your reminiscence recall. What doesn’t kill you would possibly push you into habit. What doesn’t kill you would possibly make you suicidal or parasuicidal. What doesn’t kill you would possibly lead you to bodily or emotionally abuse your youngsters since you don’t know find out how to deal with the overwhelming nature of your wrestle. 

Battle doesn’t assure resilience. A extra correct expression could be “What doesn’t kill you forces you right into a place the place it’s a must to select between connection or isolation, and selecting connection makes you stronger.” It’s not as like, ‘slogan-ready’ per se, however correct, nonetheless.

I want folks understood that it’s by no means the horrible issues that occurred to you that make you stronger; it’s the resiliency-building expertise you have interaction to course of the horrible issues. What doesn’t kill you can make you stronger, however provided that you are feeling your emotions, course of your expertise (i.e., work out what the expertise means to you), and have interaction the protecting elements round you—primarily, the facility of connection. Help isn’t just an alternate of knowledge or help; help is an alternate of connection.